Keenan Allen's Ceiling

Wutthecrapman said:

Top 8-12 for me. He's a strong fearless wideout that gets in done. Only drawback in the following years might be his QB.

I have to agree with WTCM here..

bmxholden1 said:

Back to that list, I would bump Allen above Brown, Patterson and Alshon. With Wheaton and Martavis in town I think Brown has a dip, Alshon a dip thanks to Cutlers health and Wilson entering the mix and Patterson just isn't as good of a WR. That puts him at 7 for me.

Please don't quote the list i just drew up on the fly fellas. Its just something i through together to show that "Look these are the guys at the of my head. that I know I would definitely draft ahead of our subject." It just shows the kid has some work in him before he shoots up to top 5 etc.

bmxholden1 said:

Back to that list, I would bump Allen above Brown, Patterson and Alshon. With Wheaton and Martavis in town I think Brown has a dip, Alshon a dip thanks to Cutlers health and Wilson entering the mix and Patterson just isn't as good of a WR. That puts him at 7 for me.

7 is a very good call. Behind;
Calvin
Green
Dez
Thomas
Julio
Marshall
Allen

He could leap frog Marshall by 2015

Reisssox said:

How is CP above Allen? Allen had a great rookie yr..CP had some nice reverse's.....Guy can ball...

I've been saying for a few months now... CP is a little overrated. I like CP but he's still too raw and that QB sit will hurt him. He's not QB proof.

footballjunkie said:

How is CP above Allen? Allen had a great rookie yr..CP had some nice reverse's.....Guy can ball...

I've been saying for a few months now... CP is a little overrated. I like CP but he's still too raw and that QB sit will hurt him. He's not QB proof.

Can you explain this? I think considering how he was used last year he showed that he is practically the epitome of QB Proof.

robbyrobdu said:

footballjunkie said:

How is CP above Allen? Allen had a great rookie yr..CP had some nice reverse's.....Guy can ball...

I've been saying for a few months now... CP is a little overrated. I like CP but he's still too raw and that QB sit will hurt him. He's not QB proof.

Can you explain this? I think considering how he was used last year he showed that he is practically the epitome of QB Proof.

Oh boy.... This is gonna be epic for me to watch this unfold.

robbyrobdu said:

footballjunkie said:

How is CP above Allen? Allen had a great rookie yr..CP had some nice reverse's.....Guy can ball...

I've been saying for a few months now... CP is a little overrated. I like CP but he's still too raw and that QB sit will hurt him. He's not QB proof.

Can you explain this? I think considering how he was used last year he showed that he is practically the epitome of QB Proof.

Before we get into keeping the comparison between CP and Allen, let's take a look at CP solely.

Yes most QB's can throw the bubble screen, or hand the ball off to him which may consider him being QB proof, But a true QB proof WR is one that gets open for QB on slants, curls, post routes on a consistent basis.

Some numbers came out recently on CP as to how far in yards his targets were...

Source: Minneapolis star-tribue.

Nearly two-thirds of Cordarrelle Patterson's 2013 targets came within ten yards of the line of scrimmage, and 22 of the 72 targets came on passes behind the line of scrimmage.
Although Patterson theoretically possesses the size-speed combination to become new Vikings OC Norv Turner's next Josh Gordon or Vincent Jackson, his rookie-year usage suggests Patterson is not yet a vertical receiver, and is far more comparable to a plus-sized Percy Harvin. Whether Patterson can improve as an intermediate and vertical route runner will go a long way toward determining if he can take a Gordon-like leap in his second season. Apr 21 - 1:46 PM

That's evidence that his targets are manufactured and almost forced rather than letting the full offense flow and having the QB read the defense and findind the open WR.

Some if this manufacting targets could be that the QB play is just not very good, which is another reason why I'm not loving CP. Cassel is not the the answer... BRIDGEWATER IS NOT THE ANSWER.

Yes he's a beast with the ball in his hands, but again, getting WR into space(end arounds, bubble screens, ETC.) are manufactured targets rather than letting the offense flow and trusting the QB to make reads.

Furthermore, early on, in OTA, and minicamps, CP IS NOT playing the VJax or Gordon role in the Turners offense, Jennings is.

Now In comparison to Allen in their respectively rookie years...

1. Allen had 104 targets to CP'a 77... Yet Allen only missed to connect with his QB ONLY once more than CP and his QB's... Allen missed 33 timeS. CP missed 32 times... In reception catch rate... Allen, 68 %(sick)... CP 60%.

2. Most, if not ALL big time true NFL WR1's play the X slot not the Z(Allen plays the X, CP plays the Z) slot... This is telling that the X WR can run all the routes, while the Z is more of the move and try to get open WR to use his after the catch abilities.

In summary, I really like CP the player but the combo or even trio factors of being raw, bad QB situation and run with AP, I just can't see how he could a QB proof WR and be ranked ahead of Allen in redraft or dynast rankings. I like what CP brings to the the table for his NFL team, just don't love what he brings to fantasy football just yet.

Wutthecrapman said:

robbyrobdu said:

footballjunkie said:

How is CP above Allen? Allen had a great rookie yr..CP had some nice reverse's.....Guy can ball...

I've been saying for a few months now... CP is a little overrated. I like CP but he's still too raw and that QB sit will hurt him. He's not QB proof.

Can you explain this? I think considering how he was used last year he showed that he is practically the epitome of QB Proof.

Oh boy.... This is gonna be epic for me to watch this unfold.

I was hoping to spark something like this(sits back and kicks feet up).

i haveto agree with Junkie here as i have stated many times i just dont think we will see a huge breakout by CP this year but next year i see a big leap..

bddavidson said:

i haveto agree with Junkie here as i have stated many times i just dont think we will see a huge breakout by CP this year but next year i see a big leap..

So who would you rather have in 2015 Allen or Patterson. I only ask cause that's when you think he makes the big leap.

bddavidson said:

i haveto agree with Junkie here as i have stated many times i just dont think we will see a huge breakout by CP this year but next year i see a big leap..

I agree to the extend that the improvement won't be vast but good. Not due to his QB, just a natural growing period for any WR. Bridgewater may or may not be the answer, that is left to be seen but he IS an improvement to what they had. Like Flacco was to Boller. Not the best, but will do kinda thing.

footballjunkie said:

robbyrobdu said:

footballjunkie said:

How is CP above Allen? Allen had a great rookie yr..CP had some nice reverse's.....Guy can ball...

I've been saying for a few months now... CP is a little overrated. I like CP but he's still too raw and that QB sit will hurt him. He's not QB proof.

Can you explain this? I think considering how he was used last year he showed that he is practically the epitome of QB Proof.

Before we get into keeping the comparison between CP and Allen, let's take a look at CP solely.

Yes most QB's can throw the bubble screen, or hand the ball off to him which may consider him being QB proof, But a true QB proof WR is one that gets open for QB on slants, curls, post routes on a consistent basis.

Some numbers came out recently on CP as to how far in yards his targets were...

Source: Minneapolis star-tribue.

Nearly two-thirds of Cordarrelle Patterson's 2013 targets came within ten yards of the line of scrimmage, and 22 of the 72 targets came on passes behind the line of scrimmage.
Although Patterson theoretically possesses the size-speed combination to become new Vikings OC Norv Turner's next Josh Gordon or Vincent Jackson, his rookie-year usage suggests Patterson is not yet a vertical receiver, and is far more comparable to a plus-sized Percy Harvin. Whether Patterson can improve as an intermediate and vertical route runner will go a long way toward determining if he can take a Gordon-like leap in his second season. Apr 21 - 1:46 PM

That's evidence that his targets are manufactured and almost forced rather than letting the full offense flow and having the QB read the defense and findind the open WR.

Some if this manufacting targets could be that the QB play is just not very good, which is another reason why I'm not loving CP. Cassel is not the the answer... BRIDGEWATER IS NOT THE ANSWER.

Yes he's a beast with the ball in his hands, but again, getting WR into space(end arounds, bubble screens, ETC.) are manufactured targets rather than letting the offense flow and trusting the QB to make reads.

Furthermore, early on, in OTA, and minicamps, CP IS NOT playing the VJax or Gordon role in the Turners offense, Jennings is.

Now In comparison to Allen in their respectively rookie years...

1. Allen had 104 targets to CP'a 77... Yet Allen only missed to connect with his QB ONLY once more than CP and his QB's... Allen missed 33 timeS. CP missed 32 times... In reception catch rate... Allen, 68 %(sick)... CP 60%.

2. Most, if not ALL big time true NFL WR1's play the X slot not the Z(Allen plays the X, CP plays the Z) slot... This is telling that the X WR can run all the routes, while the Z is more of the move and try to get open WR to use his after the catch abilities.

In summary, I really like CP the player but the combo or even trio factors of being raw, bad QB situation and run with AP, I just can't see how he could a QB proof WR and be ranked ahead of Allen in redraft or dynast rankings. I like what CP brings to the the table for his NFL team, just don't love what he brings to fantasy football just yet.

Great arguments and info!!

This is definitely an agree to disagree situation.

I saw a good number of tipped passes that would count as targets and against catches in this scenario...bad QB play hurts his Rec% but not what he does when he gets the ball...and theu WILL manufacture touches...neither of these things are his fault...and in a vacuum/with competent QB play I take him all day.

Thanks for the awesome info and I also would like to say I like Allen a lot, but CO is my fantasy booth an lol

jknighton said:

bddavidson said:

i haveto agree with Junkie here as i have stated many times i just dont think we will see a huge breakout by CP this year but next year i see a big leap..

So who would you rather have in 2015 Allen or Patterson. I only ask cause that's when you think he makes the big leap.

i actually want both...but if i had to take one in 2015 i take CP one reason i am a TN homer lol and the guy can outright fly...but there isnt a right or wrong answer here.

I usually don't drop names from the Upside Board, and please continue to not give that info out in threads, but I get to break my own rule...

Keenan Allen was the first to crack the Upside Board I think... or he was the 2nd. He never left (i thought he had, but just checked and he never has), and the prediction that's up seemed crazier earlier on during the off-season. Sounds like many in this thread will still think it's crazy.

Smitty said:

I usually don't drop names from the Upside Board, and please continue to not give that info out in threads, but I get to break my own rule...

Keenan Allen was the first to crack the Upside Board I think... or he was the 2nd. He never left (i thought he had, but just checked and he never has), and the prediction that's up seemed crazier earlier on during the off-season. Sounds like many in this thread will still think it's crazy.

And that is one of THE BEST parts of being a fantasy nut and talking to other fantasy nuts!!

robbyrobdu said:

Smitty said:

I usually don't drop names from the Upside Board, and please continue to not give that info out in threads, but I get to break my own rule...

Keenan Allen was the first to crack the Upside Board I think... or he was the 2nd. He never left (i thought he had, but just checked and he never has), and the prediction that's up seemed crazier earlier on during the off-season. Sounds like many in this thread will still think it's crazy.

And that is one of THE BEST parts of being a fantasy nut and talking to other fantasy nuts!!

Yep. I get called crazy a lot, though.

Smitty said:

robbyrobdu said:

Smitty said:

I usually don't drop names from the Upside Board, and please continue to not give that info out in threads, but I get to break my own rule...

Keenan Allen was the first to crack the Upside Board I think... or he was the 2nd. He never left (i thought he had, but just checked and he never has), and the prediction that's up seemed crazier earlier on during the off-season. Sounds like many in this thread will still think it's crazy.

And that is one of THE BEST parts of being a fantasy nut and talking to other fantasy nuts!!

Yep. I get called crazy a lot, though.

Yup and my wife just calls it stupid !!!! Lol

GoWithWhatYouGot said:

Smitty said:

robbyrobdu said:

Smitty said:

I usually don't drop names from the Upside Board, and please continue to not give that info out in threads, but I get to break my own rule...

Keenan Allen was the first to crack the Upside Board I think... or he was the 2nd. He never left (i thought he had, but just checked and he never has), and the prediction that's up seemed crazier earlier on during the off-season. Sounds like many in this thread will still think it's crazy.

And that is one of THE BEST parts of being a fantasy nut and talking to other fantasy nuts!!

Yep. I get called crazy a lot, though.

Yup and my wife just calls it stupid !!!! Lol

HAHA! Yeah, I hear that too!! :O 8-}

Only in movies do wives think their husbands are smart.

Smitty said:

Only in movies do wives think their husbands are smart.

Ha! Ain't that the truth.

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