donvaughn said:

haimez40 said:

The Turbin situation to me is more of a redshirt type season.  They knew Lynch days were numbered and they had a rock solid run game and a chance to win with that D.  They figured run Lynch into the ground and go for the gold.  Save some miles on the tires for Michael going forward when Lynch is dressed in Orange or wanting ridiculous money while serving a suspension.  Turbin is more of the compliment back anyways to Lynch and Michael.

I think this summed it up

Please explain how Turbin is a compliment back to CM. Turbin is a prototypical RB size-wise. He is bigger than CM and Lynch. Turbin was faster than both at their respective combines and Turbin's other measurables were very comparable with CM's.

Glad you asked. I did some quick glance research and although leaping ability is certainly no indicator of success as a RB, when you do combine searches of best vertical the top half of the group has far outperformed the bottom half. The cutoff was at about 34"! In other words, if you can't get up at least 34" your chances for success were dramatically reduced.

Nice little example is, Lamar Miller and Isaiah Pead were both 33" - Stacy 36"
Donald Brown who has now emerged 41" Doug Martin 36" even Alfred Morris 35.5"

Again, it's only one data point, but when crunched statistically points to leg strength and quick-twitch fibers, burst. You can't jump high without leg pop, and nobody has leg pop like CM

Serious answer, backed by mathematics, now, is somebody going to really argue with math :)

CM is probably reading this scratching his head, what do I gotta do to impress you doubters? Come on, Gio went 4.12, 6.91 and only 33.5, a weakly 19 reps and weighs in at 202 and you love him? Come on man, that's D2 compared to me haha!

bmxholden1 said:

But Stew,  did you see him in the pre-season?  I think he went over 100 yards, in the 2nd half (vision, balance, patience...) The guy was simply dynamic.  And I have all the respect in the world for AP, but as Smitty says,  there will ALWAYS be a player to come along that will end up better, that's the reality.  How could anyone be better than LaDainian,  Emmitt etc. etc., then along comes AP.  This is why Michael is so intriguing, because while a risk play right now,  if he pops, it's a home run.  And Hawk I agree - I have never seen a shuttle time that impressive for a guy of his size - 

Here is Darren Sproles  Shuttle: 3.96   3-Cone 6.96  Vertical 33"  23 reps bench    187 pounds RB

Here is CM:                  Shuttle: 4.02   3-cone 6.69  Vertical 43"  27 reps bench    222 pounds RB

for more perspective:

Dexter McCluster Shuttle:  4.06

Dante Hall Shuttle:  3.82

3-Cone:  Ray Rice,  6.65, but only 212 pounds 

Now really take a look at this - A 222 pound man is in the quicks class of Sproles, Hall and McCluster and out-jumps all of them?  He has the quicks of a Sproles, very nearly the strength of Ray Lewis and the equal hops of Calvin Johnson, and he plays on a Championship level running-centric team with 2 all-pro linemen coming back. 

come on now fellas - CM is under-hyped,  this guy is a freak talent - you want freak talents like this on your team, before they are worth your entire draft and you can't get them.

Agree or disagree with the above, this kind of info by @bmxholden1 is awesome forum contribution. Keep it up!

hawk12 said:

Would you all consider the possibility that CM is not playing is due to his lack of pass protection ability as of last year>>>  That has kept more than a few talented RBs off the field....

The team is excited about him, I see no longterm doubts by the coaching staff or organization.. Think of it from a non ff angle.. If the owner, would you put mileage on CM's wheels if you still had the top five Marshawn Lynch playing elite football. Like with SF not wasting a mile with a 2013 Lattimore carry, maybe SEA is just being smart.. Like redshirting his mileage? I would!

Smitty said:

hawk12 said:

Would you all consider the possibility that CM is not playing is due to his lack of pass protection ability as of last year>>>  That has kept more than a few talented RBs off the field....

The team is excited about him, I see no longterm doubts by the coaching staff or organization.. Think of it from a non ff angle.. If the owner, would you put mileage on CM's wheels if you still had the top five Marshawn Lynch playing elite football. Like with SF not wasting a mile with a 2013 Lattimore carry, maybe SEA is just being smart.. Like redshirting his mileage? I would!

that is a good point, I think that may very well be the future shift in RBs... As you mentioned in another post, you expect the RB and WR shift to happen again someday in FF - - well it very well could be riding the stud RB, and having a very capable back up that can step in when the primary guys 'erodes due to wear & tear' or gets injured.
Ex - as mentioned, Gore  & Lattimore - how about Rice & Peirce, McCoy & Polk, Lynch & CM, Moreno & Ball... 

As the primary RB shifted to committee, the FF landscape changed a great deal to favor the Top WRs.  Maybe the old 'handcuff' approach might be the next wave of FF change.  (Usually I'm too far out in front of these trends to actually take advantage, as last year I traded for Peirce to cuff Rice, and the prior year I traded for M Bush to cuff Forte - - but I do see a slight tendancy in 'some teams' to ride the primary while they have a capable back-up.

I say if you own the above primary RBs, go get the cuffs and hold tight till Gore, Rice, Lynch wear out, even Shady will wear down eventually...

That is probably one reason for all this hype about a back up!

Swampies said:

jknighton said:

Serious question. Michael has a great vertical jump but where does that even translate in his game, since he is a RB?

it would have helped Denver on their first offensive play in the Super Bowl if someone could jump like that! Lol

Haha very true

stewss7 said:

Smitty said:

hawk12 said:

Would you all consider the possibility that CM is not playing is due to his lack of pass protection ability as of last year>>>  That has kept more than a few talented RBs off the field....

The team is excited about him, I see no longterm doubts by the coaching staff or organization.. Think of it from a non ff angle.. If the owner, would you put mileage on CM's wheels if you still had the top five Marshawn Lynch playing elite football. Like with SF not wasting a mile with a 2013 Lattimore carry, maybe SEA is just being smart.. Like redshirting his mileage? I would!

Now we're comparing apples and oranges. Lattimore his knee completely reconstructed a relatively short time ago and CM has been healthy for years. And who says the team is excited about him? Is the team saying that? Big shocker...what else are they supposed to say? If there were doubts within the coaching staff/front office, it would be pretty stupid of them to let everyone know about it. 18 carries in 19 career games hardly says "STUD" to me.

If this wasn't arguable, which your side is, he wouldn't be a sleeper and cost so little given the possible ceiling value. I hear ya, and it is a stance many share, which creates the value.

Which round do you guys take cm in a start up?

stewss7 said:

I feel like this is running in circles. I am not saying CM has no value or his measurable abilities won't translate. I am merely asking why so many seem to be dismissing Turbin as the #2 RB in SEA. Lynch, Turbin & CM are roughly the same size with similar speed and agility measurements. I'm not saying Turbin is the future in SEA, I have no idea. But based on what I see and what I know of CM from his days at TA&M, it would not surprise me if CM is keeping himself off the field with non-measureables.

I'll refrain from replying unless asked a direct ?.

"Gut". That's all we have based on some small amounts of video and data... the same limited amount of info had prior to Arian Foster's breakout campaign. The same limited data, if not less, than we had prior to wrongly predicting Lamar Miller's rise. The two examples go to show that situations can suck or be awesome, as I think both Miller and Foster had/have the ability.