Michael Sam’s has a lot of guts!

"I'm gay...I'm gay....I'm gay, " responded the gay guy

"huh?" said farfromhome.

"I'm gay...I'm gay...I'm gay, " he said while raising his voice.

"Your gay you say?" I responded

"I'm GAY...why are you being a caveman about it and not allowing me to be gay?" responds angry gay dude.

"What are we talking about again?" I gasp.

bddavidson said:

JRMRRT said:

bddavidson said:

Swampies said:

I said extreme christians! That is not stereotyping at all , just replying to what was said before!

Read carefully at what I said!

not all extreme christian have bumper stickers..so yes sterotyping...my father is what you call"an extreme christian" we call it following actually what the bible says without man liberal changes..

The bible is the most changed and censored book in the history of man...and written by man a century or 2 after the so called authors died. And at the Council of Nicea Constantine decided that only 4 of many Gospels would be allowed in. They left out the Gospel of James...the brother of Jesus, lol. I especially love how just a few centuries ago the church was excommunicating people who said the sun and not the Earth was the center of the solar system. I am Christian...I try to live by asking myself what would Jesus do and not follow so literally a book that was written thousands of years ago. Jesus hung with prostitutes, told criminals on the crosses next to him they would be in heaven and forgave the people who tortured and murdered him right before his dealth...Im pretty sure he would have accepted homosexuals too if they were kind hearted people who accepted him as savior.

We are all entitled to our ways, beliefs and pursuits of happiness though...even gay people.

i believe Jesus were giving the "sinned" a 2nd chance but this isnt bible class and i also believe the bible states marriage is between a man and a women...so i am not so sure he would condone gay/lesbian culture, also God destroyed Sodom/Gomorrah for this reason..

lets move on as this isnt the point..

The Church called Jesus a sinner and blasphemer before they crucified him...John the Baptist too. And they were using the Old Testament as a guide. I wouldnt focus too much on the what is written in that what...3,500 year old text. And every natural disaster back then was blamed on the wrath of God because they knew nothing of science. Ive been to some places that would be destroyed long ago if God really was in the city destroying business.

This is in the Old Testament too:

Deuteronomy 21:18-21 to kill their disobedient children with stones?

"If a man has a stubborn and rebellious son who does not obey his father and mother and will not listen to them when they discipline him, 19 his father and mother shall take hold of him and bring him to the elders at the gate of his town. 20 They shall say to the elders, "This son of ours is stubborn and rebellious. He will not obey us. He is a profligate and a drunkard." 21 Then all the men of his town shall stone him to death."

^ guess if that happen enough there be no back talking from my teenagers lol...jk

bddavidson said:

^ guess if that happen enough there be no back talking from my teenagers lol...jk

who needs stones when all I have to do is take his iPad away then make him clean all three toilets in the house! Lol, you'd be surprise how well that works!

Yhew i bet tha does work swampie..

Im gonna use that toilet thing....nice

Hey Guys, great discussion! Can't believe so many people were able to express their unfiltered and differing opinions, without someone freaking out. Kudos to the DC community. Just wanted to chime in on a few things. I am a Christian and also happen to be a pastor, so these are very relevant conversation points as you can imagine for me. One thing it's important to distinguish is that when a Christian tries to tell you about their faith, it's not because of pride or because they want to flaunt it (at least that's not how it should be although I know it often times is done poorly and with wrong motives) but it is because if a Christian really believes what the Bible has to say, they believe that those who do not have faith in Jesus for the forgiveness of sin will actually end up in hell. That's not their idea or their opinion, it's a fact IF you believe what the bible has to say is true. So when a Christian is trying to persuade the world to believe as they do, it's actually out of love for those with whom they are sharing. When a homosexual tries to persuade others that it is not acceptable for people to see their lifestyle as sinful, they are trying to push an agenda which is for their own benefit. Which I might add, I can fully understand why they would want that. I just wanted to point out what I perceive to be the motives behind these acts.

Secondly, as a Bible-believing Christian I don't see how anyone can or should have a problem with a homosexual wanting to take up any career (maybe with the exception of being clergy for a denomination that believes homosexuality is a sin). I personally hope that Micahel Sam does get drafted and does well. He seems like a good guy that deserves a shot like anyone else. And I also tend to believe that he had to do the interview to get ahead of the media as was shared. I do however, still think that the locker room dynamic is one that will need to be worked through. And maybe I just don't understand the mind of a gay person, but I do think there is a conflict of personal interest in showering and dressing with anyone who might be sexually attracted to me other than my wife. If there were women players in the NFL, I don't think they would also share the same showers and locker room for changing. To the point of female reporters already being in the locker room, I believe all the reporters come in after the players have had enough time to shower and change. If the players choose to be exposed, then they are able to do that, but I believe they do have plenty of opportunity to be "decent" before the media is in the locker room. Maybe I'm wrong on that.

As for born that way or not. I don't believe there is "scientific" evidence to support one way or the other. What I do know is that I have homosexual friends that grew up with attraction to the opposite sex and over time wrestled with same sex or opposite sex attraction and eventually decided they were going to be gay. I also know of situations where a person was gay and had recognized it as wrong and had successful heterosexual relationships. Studies have shown that there are a lot of similar circumstancial situations in those who are homosexual. As a Bible believing Christian I do believe to act on homosexual feelings is wrong, but I also believe that we were all born with sinful tendancies, some might be prone to lie, some might be prone to drink, and in the case of this topic, some may be prone to same sex attraction. But the sin doesn't come in how you feel, the sin comes in what you do with what you feel. All that said, Christians have done a terrible job demonstrating the love of Christ historically. I am ashamed and embarrassed of the way some Christians treat homosexuals. And frankly the way I used to joke about them as well. We are to love everyone regardless of their beliefs. But, that doesn't mean that my belief should be called a hate crime just for believing it. And that is where we are headed.

With what seems to be a full restructure of the defense now with the releases yesterday I am even more confident that Michael Sam will be a Saint.

Celebrating I don't think so, but recognizing it yes!

Swampies said:

Celebrating I don't think so, but recognizing it yes!

what we need another person throwing up to those that disagree with ...thanks for that!

tmoney said:

So if we are worried about guys getting checked out in the lockerroom when they are changing, why are female reporters allowed in the lockerroom?

Lawyers

bddavidson said:

Swampies said:

Celebrating I don't think so, but recognizing it yes!

what we need another person throwing up to those that disagree with ...thanks for that!

his broadcast made no sense. this guy says, he doesnt want to know what anyone does in their bedroom , so this draft pick tells the whole world what he does in his bedroom , and so will celebrate what we dont want to know what we know that he does in his bedroom.
:-?

fontaines said:

tmoney said:

So if we are worried about guys getting checked out in the lockerroom when they are changing, why are female reporters allowed in the lockerroom?

Lawyers

I don't want no lawyers checking out my junk.

Thank you Icemic - very well thought out and presented post!

I hope the Chiefs don't draft him. As KC legislators are basically saying, "your kind ain't welcome here."

http://www.slate.com/blogs/outward/2014/02/13/kansas_anti_gay_segregation_bill_is_an_abomination.html

Jonathan Vilma said he would be uncomfortable around him in the lockeroom and showers...oh look, he just got cut from his team :p

While I agree with a lot of what ice is saying his comparison of "intent" really stuck out to me.

So, correct me if I'm wrong but did you just say that threatening someone with "an eternity of hellfire and damnation" if they don't do what you say is "love" yet demanding the same rights & privileges as everyone else is "selfish"???

Your heartfelt belief and intent of an action doesn't somehow make an unacceptable action (threatening someone who poses no imminent danger to you) acceptable.

None of us are perfect & we won't ever all agree on every single issue. The only way to constructively move forward is tolerance. Treat others with the respect & acceptance that you want to be treated with regardless of if you agree or not. End. Of. Story.

Mike, I think you misunderstood what I was trying to say. Sorry if I communicated it poorly. Here's an attempt to clarify:

#1 - you can't threaten someone with something that is out of your control. If you believed someone was going to get hit by a car if they walk into a street and you told them, that wouldn't be a threat. Do you see the difference? That would be looking out for their best interest. Bible believing Christians don't make the rules, they just believe in what the bible has to say and the one who inspired the authors to write what they wrote. So let's just hypothetically say, that you knew for a fact that if people didn't follow Jesus' teaching they'd spend eternity in hell, wouldn't telling them be the most loving thing you could do? (And as a side note, the bible clearly says that every single one of us deserves hell, Christian or not. We are all just as guilty of sin as the next person. The difference is, a true Christian has confessed their sin and believes that the death of Jesus has paid the penalty for sin, which is hell.)

#2 - I never said that homosexuals (or anyone for that matter) should have different rights and privileges as everyone else. I get standing up for equal rights. What I specifically said was, "When a homosexual tries to persuade others that it is not acceptable for people to see their lifestyle as sinful". There's a difference between wanting the same rights and privileges as someone else and demanding that they believe exactly as you do. I cannot, I will not demand that someone believes in Christ, but homosexuals do demand that it is unacceptable for me to believe that what they do is wrong. Do you see the difference?

I think we agree with your last statement. I am all about tolerance, love, respect and acceptance regardless of belief or practice. That is a very Christian principle. We are all created in the image of God and should be seen as such. The problem becomes when tolerance and acceptance turns in to you must believe what I believe otherwise you are a bigot.

Another great post Icemic and I agree 100%. You have the human right to believe in the Bible as you have interpreted it, a gay person has the right to believe in whatever faith, belief or non-belief they so choose. Gays also have the right to make a case that it is not sinful, Christians have the right to disagree and go with what the Bible teaches about it, but neither side has the right to FORCE the other to agree or accept as normal by throwing hateful words like "bigot" or "intolerant" around just to silence or demean the other side. I'm quite sure gays don't accept most Christian's interpretation of the Bible as normal.

Now there are extreme people on both sides, some gays are quite militant, not the majority, but some demand demand demand. There are also extreme Christians who do not approach the subject like Icemic, but deflect their own imperfections by hollering about other people's, namely gays. This is a great thread because it really addresses what kind of Country we want to live in, do we have to sacrifice one groups rights in order for the other to have rights? Or can both groups express their beliefs without forcing the other to accept and agree? We are already seeing force at play with the Boy Scouts getting strong-armed into accepting gay scout leaders, forcing private youth organizations to go against their core values is what we are talking about, and if we keep going down this road, Churches will be forced to hire gay Pastors and it continues until Christianity is forced underground - is that the America we want?

MikeOcherts said:

The only way to constructively move forward is tolerance. Treat others with the respect & acceptance that you want to be treated with regardless of if you agree or not. End. Of. Story.

Well said Mike...And I will say this about homosexuality and sin. As a Christian I cant point my finger and call a homosexual a sinner cause Jesus said let he who is without sin cast the 1st stone. And we are ALL sinners here. One man says a homosexual is a sinner and that man is married and recently had impure thoughts about his neighbors wife...porn, gluttony, what ever your sin of choice is right now we all sinners so dont judge one another...Thats Gods job, not ours. We should all live our lives the best we can with what we have...God made us all...

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